there are -- the republican leaders don't want a huge fight over the debt ceiling. but the rank-and-file members do. so how they navigate that is going to have a huge impact on how this plays out, but it's going to be a tremendous fight. and the idea that the president's going to not get to negotiate over the debt ceiling, it's not going to happen. >> well, to that end, what carol's saying, david, there are some in the gop who have suggested a partial government shutdown may be needed to get the spending cuts that they want. do you think that's where we're headed? >> well, i think it's very possible. if you look at how the fiscal cliff played out, as carol noted, republicans didn't get a number of things they were shooting for on their end. so politically, as well as substantively, the fiscal cliff, the debt ceiling i should say, then becomes their next avenue for being able to extract what they want out of the administration in terms of spending cuts and paring down the size and scope of government. if you look at this from a republican's point of view, not only do they want to get things substantively be
